Yesterday I picked up a generator set which was sold by Hardy Diesel (www.hardydiesel,com) It has a Ghangzhou 195 diesel engine on it. The generator is an Italian made 10.8 kw brushless (mecc alte spa) altenator-generator. The machine was equipped with Murphy safety switches.
An old lady has owned it for some 7 years but has never run it. She and her husband bought it and he died. She does not know anything about the operation. They mounted is on 2 6x6 sills and covered it with a trap. No concrete floor so the moisture has sort of made a mess but not bad. I got it in the shop and after cleaning the terminals on the solonoid I rolled it over. When I released the decompression it hit and ran. I checked the volate and it is generating. I have load tested it yet.
I have worked as a rig electrician on the offshore rigs for some 10 years and pretty much understand generation. The thing I haven't experienced is this Chinese engine. I went to China in and saw a lot of little two wheeled tractors on the streets with what looked like the same engine.
I was wondering if anyone the forum has had any experience with this engine?
I have seen a few of the smaller Chinese built diesel engines. They follow a German design. The smaller Chinese diesel engines are generally pretty bullet proof. A few Volunteer Fire Departments around this way bought Chinese-built diesel gensets for the "Y2K" insanity. These gensets are a bit larger (about 15 Kva), using water cooled 4 cylinder Chinese diesel engines, direct coupled to generators. They appear well made and the guys I know from VFD's who have them have said they worked OK for load tests and storm outages.
The only real downside I heard came from the local "auto electric" shop. This is the local starter/generator/alternator rebuilder. This guy has a shop by his house on a backroad and rebuilds and repairs any sort of automotive electrics- whether off cars, trucks, tractors, dozers, or other industrial engines. I brought an older Bosch motorcycle starting motor to him and he rebuilt it about 4 yrs ago. In passing, the guy remarked that Bosch built great starters, and it was the Chinese and Russian stuff that drove him nuts. He said he had rebuilt a few alternators and starters off Chinese diesels and off Russian Byeloruss tractors. The alternators on these engines had s--t for bearings in them. Some of the diodes and electrics on the charging/cranking system were a little "iffy", according to the rebuilder. He has a lathe, mill, and drill press and welder and is a guy of about 65 yrs of age in a little shop. As such, he tangles with the odd jobs that the regualr rebuild/exchange shops won't touch. He retrofitted Delco alternators to some fo these imported diesels. That is the only downside I have heard.
Dick
I have heard that these little engines are tough and that they have a unique fuel injection system.
A few years back there was a lot of talk about a generator packaging plant over in the Abbeville La area but it never happened.
Say, when you get tired of working on drilling rigs, come talk to me. I sure need electricians on the production side. Rig electricians have no problem picking up production equipment. It’s the mechanics that have difficulty since the equipment is totally different.
Karl
The engine I have is called an S195 Changchi but I think it is the same engine. This is a single cylinder diesel which is used on the two wheeled tractors. Yesterday I mounted a battery box and new cables. It now starts without having to hit the compression release.
The generator seems to have an electronic regulator which is not found on many generators this small. I have not load tested it yet. I noticed my junkman friend just brought in load of commercial dryers so I will get some heating coils from him for a load box. I also have a 5 H.P. single phase motor to get some inductive load. If it will handle 75% load for some hours, I may buy it.
I agree with electronic regulators but this one is a step ahead of many generators found here. This is an Italian generator.
I saw a lot of these types of engines running on two wheeled tractors when I was in China in . As for smoking only God knows what they were burning for fuel. May have been jet fuel or hog lard.
Anyway, I just gave $ 1,400.00 for the whole mess.
the biggest problem with the chinlee diesel sets is they are not made to quality control specs and several government factories produce them under various name badges. They use whatever parts are available at the time for the assembly line and the parts installed today may not be the parts installed next week.
The govt supports piracy of other countries & companies design work in everything from CD's to high end electronics and machinery. They are above the law : or so they think.
Without schematics for your particular set it is impossible to guess what you burned out. Obviously something fried , it could be the breaker, the switch , the secondary winding, or the control system. Too many possibilities to guess.
I know a guy that imports them by the container load , He expects a one in five failure on initial startup. He just replaces them and goes after the exporter for a refund.
Very similar to those buying "Listeroids " from India. A great little diesel engine, IF you completely disassemble them before starting them up and tighten all the internal bolts, fit the bearings, clean the oil passages, & wash out all the casting sand residue.
Quality control is not job #1 in Asia
Chad,
I want to make sure I understand what happened here. You are saying you sent the 240 Volt house power out through the cord, connected to your generator, up to the open load-side of the circuit breaker, right? A diagram sure would be helpful, even if you had to draw it.
Are there more than one wire on the load-side lugs of the breaker, that could have went to something else?
Did you ohm out your 120/240 switch and two-pole circuit breaker serving the twistlock outlet? Are there only four main stator wires that come out of the windings, to this switch? If you can't come up with a combination of meter lead touch points to give you 240 V. there, or on the line-side of the circuit breaker, then yes, you probably having a winding gone.
As for backfeeding, your portable genset is not designed/intended to ever have power coming in to it. Plain and simple, and this is not intended to dog you personally, Chad, it is a code violation to even be interconnected-capable with the utility source, without permitting/approval, and equipment that has the proper monitoring/protection/coordination capabilities built in to it.
Unfortunately, and again, this is not directed at anyone, these things do happen, even with the best of intentions, and the results are disastrous.
Example: http://www.oshrc.gov/decisions/html_/06-.htm
eric
yes i have made a mistake . but being its not ever day i have to switch to gen set for power ( more like once or twice a year ) and i used to breakers to isolate the unit breaker on main of house and breaker at gen set.
and i walk it down and turn off other loads ( hotwater heater ,etc ) i have never made a mistake and back feed power back out of house.
and you do not need a auto transfer switch.
in ten years i have not sent power back out and i knowing had power going to it from house the other day because machine breaker was open.
only thing i did wrong was move the 120/240 volt selector on the gen set. but to my point that should not had been a porblem it should have only isolated one leg, no cause a short in the unit.
and auto transfer switchs have not been around as long as people have had gen sets for back up power so just because they are now does not mean that you need one ( yes it would be best too ) but when you walk down the unit before you power it up. theres no problem backfeed outside
i am trying to firgure out on the 120 volt switch how the chinese were using it to control 120 / 240 cause somthing went wrong on the generator side
like i said im trying to trouble shoot the 120 volt switch and what other items like rectifer ,etc that could be on the loadside i did test the main breaker on the gen set and when you open it.. its open that did not fail.
anyway i fix it my self i have the wrong croud for this everone here is more worried about the why as to the what failed
---------- Post added at 02:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 PM ----------
The issue with backfeeding is it's not legal. NEC code.
People have done what you are doing. Then they forget, or the wife/children want power while you are at work, and BAMP it's backfeeding. Utility workers HAVE died because this.
---------- Post added at 02:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:15 PM ----------
Utility transformers DO work in reverse, producing deadly 25,000 volts from 110 or 220. That is the real danger to utility workers.
i was not backfeeding !!!!!!!!!!!!! thats why there is a breaker
the it is not legal to do so. so if you use a auto switch or a hand switchs doesnt matter as long as you dont do this.
end of that.
i did how ever have power going to the gen set. so say what ever you want nothing ilegal about that same as plugging in a light... as far as that goes
---------- Post added at 02:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 PM ----------
gen set was not running so no back feeding
Anyways....... Regarding the damaged gen itself.
I think you will have a difficult time finding a schematic for this and will have to trace one out yourself. A lot of this China stuff doesn't have documentation for repairs. When it doesn't work they consider service to be hauling it to the steel yard then driving to the store to get a new one.
You said you are getting 110-120 volts out, so the voltage regulator system is likely ok, (sounds like you are calling it rectifiers)
The major areas to look at are the windings and the 110/220 selector switch.
Like I said before, typically there are 2 separate windings in a 110/220 generator.
IF one of the windings is burnt out you can see the 110 volt only output you are seeing.
The 110/220 selector switch typically switches the connections of these windings so they are either in series or parelle for 110/220 or 110 only output. IF you are luck it could be burnt.
Chad,
See if this drawing will help you at all. A fairly typical set up, with 4-wire stator, circuit breaker, change-over switch, and receptacles.
Look at the wire I traced in red. This is what I was talking about earlier, about not being designed to have power coming in to the generator. A mis-wired cord with incoming power, in this application (ie, hot and neutral reversed) would have energized the frame of the genset. I understand that you said you only had discovered a reversed neutral and ground in your cord.
Let me also add that this is a forum, and is viewed world-wide. There is an abundance of experience here, and as a general rule the codes, and subsequent violations that people bring up every so often, get pointed out. Understand that if people responding to posts here condoned the use of improper methods, others "lurking" the site for info may take that info, and put it to use with bad results. It is done in the name of
Safety, not to sling mud.
So, lets carry on. Several folks have asked you to do some basic ohms checks. Do you have a good multimeter? We ask you these questions, and pretty much expect feedback from people on the results that were found to those questions. Blind troubleshooting is a tough subject, and with little to no documentation often times, proper feedback on test results is critical in us assisting you. You will need to tag, and isolate the wires from the terminals to get accurate ohm results.
eric
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Typical Small 120-240 ChangeOver circuit.jpg
I've owned two of those yellow silent ones and two open frame smaller Chinese diesel powered ones and had "issues" with all four.
You need to remove the big yellow cover, yes I know that's a pain. Then remove the end cover on the generator and you'll see a terminal block with 4 positions. Then remove after marking where they belong the four wires going to the control panel. Start the unit and hopefully you'll see 120 volts accross two sets of terminals.
I suspect your problem is on the toggle switch. I gave all my schmatics to the buyers of my units so I can't be much more help.
Search around on the WWW and you'll find what your looking for but there are several variations.
I hope you've learned something from this. There are interlocks available that will not allow the breaker for your generator to be turned on untill the main breaker is turned of.
As far as switching the voltage select switch it was not running but had poser all the same. Hopefully you just cooked the switch.
Here's a couple of schmatics that should be close.
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/yhst-/Kipor-Diesel-Gen-ServiceManual.PDF
http://userweb.windwireless.net/~jimc/genset3/wrongman.pdf
I have tried to follow the thinking on that voltage select switch more then once and have goten nowhere